Low mileage original vs. updated mechanically driver

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Turn it down a notch folks. Starting to look like FB here. We are a whole lot of diverse folks with diverse cars and diverse thoughts about what they should be.
Greg Surfas

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Just an aside. That "drive it...." Only goes so far. My 75 CdV was in the local Cadillac dealers body shop for a little cosmetics. One of their younger (I guess) helpers was asked to drive the car back to the lot. Apparently what he did was what he had seen on TV, "burnouts".
He reved the car in neutral and then dropped in low. Did I mention the hood was not fully closed.
Cost the dealership something like $8k for repairs including trans, drive shaft, hood repairs and flex plate, not to mention giving me the "cosmetics" ($2500) with out charge. Abuse taken to extremes on ANY vehicle is just plain wrong
Greg Surfas

[76eldo]

Everyone gets to enjoy their cars in their own way. 
If you want to drive it hard and deal with the damage you may incur that's your business. 
Some of us have original cars that have never been apart and never been painted. 
Those cars should be kept this way and driven sparingly and appropriately in my opinion. 

My 60 Convertible is a nice mostly original car with 1 repaint.  It's got 100,000 miles on it.  The tri power gets exercised every time I drive it.  It's just too cool of a sound not to put my foot into it when I get a clear stretch of road in front of me. 

Some of my cars are drivers and if I get a stone chip I won't cry.  Some are original paint and is really like to keep them that way but the all get driven periodically. 

Then are all stock mechanically.  I personally don't think you can gain much horsepower with adding electronic ignition to the 472 in a 1970 Cadillac.
Mine give me plenty of performance as is. 
If I want to go fast I've got a 93 Allante that runs a great.
If I want to go faster I'll look for an XLR with the V motor. 

I keep os all Cadillac and all stock because that's the way I enjoy my cars. 
For those that modify them I say do as you wish.  You own it. 
And if you totally trash it, we'll that just makes mine more valuable. 
There's plenary of these cars to go around since they built so many of them. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

When I look at cars, I appreciate the amount of stone chip marks in the paintwork.   Really shows that the vehicle is a driver, and not a trailer-queen.

Bruce.

[35-709]

First time I took Big Red on I-95 I was cruising along at 70 (one of few vehicles doing so) when a dump truck went barreling by, he hit a little bump out in front of me and some stones came off the truck.  As I was slowing down desperately trying to avoid getting hit by an errant stone, one took a huge bounce and hit square in the leading edge of right front fender --- first stone chip, agonizing!  From then on, whenever Big Red was traveling out of town, he was properly dressed!  As he will be when I drive him from my home in Florida to upstate New York this June (for the fifth time).
 

[Lexi]

35-709 I think I saw your car at the 2013 GN. She looked beautiful. Attached is a lower resolution shot of her hood ornament. As for trucks, I hate having them anywhere near when driving my classic. Flying stones and other debris kicked up seem to be a common occurrence. So I give them a wide berth. I think it is only natural to be more nervous driving a car that has seen hundreds of thousands invested in the restoration. I myself prefer aged originality, but not something that looks like a rust bucket. I don't mind a car that shows it years but in a gentle sort of way. I do want relative reliability and safety though. Probably leaning towards a low mileage original but would invest to make her safe and reliable. Clay/Lexi

[35-709]

   Looks like it, thanks!  Big Red has been to 4 GNs, driven to each on its own 4 wheels.  Won a second in the modified class at the Washington, DC GN show.
Geoff N.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Everyone gets to enjoy their cars in their own way. 
If you want to drive it hard and deal with the damage you may incur that's your business. 
Some of us have original cars that have never been apart and never been painted. 
Those cars should be kept this way and driven sparingly and appropriately in my opinion. 

My 60 Convertible is a nice mostly original car with 1 repaint.  It's got 100,000 miles on it.  The tri power gets exercised every time I drive it.  It's just too cool of a sound not to put my foot into it when I get a clear stretch of road in front of me. 

Some of my cars are drivers and if I get a stone chip I won't cry.  Some are original paint and is really like to keep them that way but the all get driven periodically. 

Then are all stock mechanically.  I personally don't think you can gain much horsepower with adding electronic ignition to the 472 in a 1970 Cadillac.
Mine give me plenty of performance as is. 
If I want to go fast I've got a 93 Allante that runs a great.
If I want to go faster I'll look for an XLR with the V motor. 

I keep os all Cadillac and all stock because that's the way I enjoy my cars. 
For those that modify them I say do as you wish.  You own it. 
And if you totally trash it, we'll that just makes mine more valuable. 
There's plenary of these cars to go around since they built so many of them.

And that's fine, you took great care of an old car, treated it with kid gloves lovingly.
Then you die.
The family doesn't want the "old car(s)" and it gets sold to a rodder. And there's nothing wrong with rods.
What did you accomplish... More importantly, what did you miss in life with the car not driving it a lot?

Pertronix won't add HP. A complete engine rebuild, will, depending on the builder of course. Everything in The Ark
is new, cam, crank, lifters, rods, pistons, chain, gears, oil pump, fuel pump, on and on... Only things original are the block
and valve covers, nothing but Reid's race magic inside. That's what made the extra HP and torque. I just like the smoothness
and reliability of Pertronix, and yes it accelerates faster,    Reid's does primarily funny cars and top fuel. The old man started
the business rebuilding 'old' engines, like mine. So he did the rebuild.. with benefits. My biggest fear going up there for dyno
was seeing a blower or a NOS bottle on it.

[TonyZappone #2624]

I started in the hobby as a young many in my early twenties.  Many of the cars that I had were dual point cars, that no one seemed to be able to set properly.  12 years ago I bit the bullet and converted two Cadillacs, a '47 convert, and a '58 convert to Pertonix AND radial tires.  What a revelation.  Like being  born again.  I also have a 1936 ......-......, with DUAL POINTS.  Put Pertonix in that too!.  More power, quicker starts, and they all go like hell.  Lighten up, we all aren't super wrenches!

[2manycars]

In the case of my 64 Coupe deVille, I got it as an 'unmolested original survivor' with just shy of 89K on the clock back in 2016. The front seat was redone as original. I only knew it was redone because the leather parts were so much nicer than the original back seat, plus there was NO vinyl used. Sides, skirts, and all are leather. Beautiful job they did. The Climate Control was completely ioperative, then the water pump leaked. Replaced the water pump and recore on the radiator. Russ Austin supplied the original pump core (mine was aftermarket) and I had that rebuilt. Drove the car some more.

Decided to rebuild the A/C and repair the oil leaks, of which they were legion. This snowballed into removal of the nose, Climate Control system (ALL of it), and the engine trans. Recored the heater, had A/C stuff rebuilt. Turned out engine was shot and cam wiped, so it got rebuilt. Trans (TH 400) leaked badly so I redid that with new bushings and seals, rebuilt oil pump and torque converter. First time doing a trans for me and it actually works! Refinished the firewall, front of frame, read support, inner fenders, ad nauseum. Repaired rustout in lower rear of pass side front fender and refinished that small section. Yes, I used a steel patch panel! Original starter and alternator were still in the car, verified by part numbers and date codes. I rebuilt the starter. I'll send the alternator out at a later date. It is in final stage of reassembly right now, after three years apart. Once together, I'll take it for a very short test run in the neighborhood, and then take it to get the A/C recharged with R12. Off to Florida after that.

I intend to drive the wheels off of it, but not abuse it. My goal here was to preserve its life, rather than restore it. It still looks really good for its age. That's the plan, anyway.

The other two old cars will be Nth degree nut and bolt restorations. The risk there is being afraid to take them anyplace afterward.

[Lexi]

  Looks like it, thanks!  Big Red has been to 4 GNs, driven to each on its own 4 wheels.  Won a second in the modified class at the Washington, DC GN show.
Geoff N.

Geoff you are welcome. Here are some more shots I think also of your car, this time from the Lake George Grand National in 2014. Clay/Lexi

[wrefakis]

I enjoy owning my 18,431  mile70 Fleetwood
I enjoy the total originality of the car
If you run a 70 on pump 93 gas all the engine mods will do little to improve power as your compression is way too high for these fuels
treat yourself to one tank of true high octane racing fuel, then you will know what a 472 really feels like

[35-709]

Geoff you are welcome. Here are some more shots I think also of your car, this time from the Lake George Grand National in 2014. Clay/Lexi

  The Lake George GN was my favorite of the 4 GNs we have attended (so far).  No big city traffic, lovely area, and the hotel air conditioning system wasn't set to meat locker temps.   

[Lexi]

  The Lake George GN was my favorite of the 4 GNs we have attended (so far).  No big city traffic, lovely area, and the hotel air conditioning system wasn't set to meat locker temps.   

Yes, on all accounts. That was an awesome GN. Couldn't ask for a more picturesque setting either. Another pic this time of some mid-50s Cadillacs at the Lake George GN in 2014. Clay/Lexi

[76eldo]

Laurie

I have a dozen cars. It's not possible for me to drive any of them too much. 
I work a lot.  If I retire and live long enough I'll put some miles on my cars. 

You should learn to respect originality and preservation of these cars.  If you want to treat your Fleetwad like a Camaro that's  your business.  We see your long and sometimes rambling posts and personally I like your enthusiasm for the hobby but you shouldn't be telling me that if I preserve a gorgeous original car I'm not accomplishing anything.  My family knows all about my cars and if I die that 70 Convertible and the 70 Eldorado with 15,000 miles on it will go to someone that appreciates what the car is. 
I've got other cars that I can drive anywhere and any way I want and not worry about detracting from their originality because they are more suited as a driver. 

Trust me, I know what  I'm doing with my cars and it's not for you or anyone else to tell me what to do with them or how to enjoy them. 

[Jon S]

Where is it written that a car can't be a low mileage original in order to be reliable?

Point 2: Restorations deteriorate far more readily and rapidly than unrestored originals - as a general rule.  Why? Because a rust free original paint car hides nothing. With a redone car you can never be certain whether rust was repaired and how long it will remain looking as it does now. How long before the paint starts deteriorating because of some fluke on the prep work, ambient weather conditions or variation in the finishing materials themselves. This is no reflection on the restoration shop or the quality of its work; it's just a fact of life: Time stands still for no restoration.

William Henry Vanderbilt was an avid art collector but his collection had been criticized for not including works from some of the great 'olde' masters.  Forgeries in the art world back then was common and wise old W. H. Vanderbilt wasn't having any of it. It was therefore his personal policy to only purchase artwork directly from the artist who created it. "That way I know what I'm getting."  It is the same reasoning why I like originals.

I also see nothing incongruous about preservation and enjoyment of a classic car. As to "driving like you stole it" - harsh driving may the requisite for some people to enjoy a classic car but not mine. I enjoy them most when driven and operated as they were designed and expected to be. I also tend to protect anything representing a sizeable investment and in my book turning a $20,000, $30,000...$100,000 car into a worthless pile of junk is either the act of a lunatic or moron. And if everyone had the same mindset about running a car into the ground and leaving nothing for anyone else, there would be no such thing as the old car hobby, now would there? 

I have to say I am in complete agreement with Eric. I have several original cars that I've owned for anywhere from 41 years to 64 years and all are in original exceptional condition. I drive my cars as I did when they were new. I do not abuse my automobiles. I believe I respect my cars and they respect me with reliability, etc.  Maybe I am critical but I have seen too many restored cars restored incorrectly as the "restorers" do not know what the cars were like when new. When our classic cars were built, the automobile manufacturers knew what they were doing and assembled a roadworthy car. Retrofitting modern technology is not required from my perspective. Again everybody has an opinion.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

FWIW
Compression ratio of a stock 1970 motor is an actual 9.8:1. If the car can't run on 93 octane something bing is wrong or the motor is car ones up. I run my 10.5:1 511 inch motor on it and only use MS-109 (109 octane) at the strip for an added safety factor.
Greg Surfas

[kink56]

I used to own 1956 or 1957 Thunderbirds. I would take them on 5000 mile round trips every other summer. Always carried a toolbox. I had to use that toolbox a couple of times along side the road. I cannot imagine any American car built after the mid 50s (or even eariler) not being able to be driven this way IF it has been properly maintained. I drove those T-Birds between TUS and MSP and they were stock. Before the year 2006 I have never owned a car newer than 1972. Now I own cars from the mid 90s. I take multi-thousand miles trips regularly.

I currently own a 1970 Buick Electra convertible with A/C. It has 44K original miles. The only upgrades I have done are stereo, and HEI distributor. Improved the tunes and the MPG. Still running R12.

My current Cadillac is a 1996 Fleetwood Brougham with 17K original miles. Yeah, I DRIVE it.