Need 1939-1940 V16 Pulley to drive generator

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

I'm putting a 1939 V16 back together....There is a third pulley that mounts on the fan shaft that drives the generator....

In the picture I'm holding the 2 pulleys that drive the 2 water pumps....you can see the generator pulley above and behind these 2 pulleys....I need that 3rd pulley....

Any help or leads on finding one will be greatly appreciated....

Mike

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hi Mike,
 I have none. The Blasinkeys were big in those cars. You'll probably be dealing with the heirs.
Good Luck, Bob       

[harvey b]

On my 38,i think it has a different type.i think the pulley is " inside" the outer pulley,do you need a picture or the actual parts,i could get you a picture if you wanted.Something tells me the 38's are different,the pulley was made to spin the generator faster to aid charging?. harveyb

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

I think the 38's had a "friction" drive generator. Didn't work too well. Many were changed  to 39/40 style.

[harvey b]

Yes,thats what mine has i couldnt think of the name of it.mine seems to work OK,but then again i only put 5-10 miles a year on it. .  harveyb

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Thanks guys,

Yes, from what I understand the 38 V16 used a friction belt setup....this motor is a 39 and that 3rd pulley that drove the generator is missing.

It looks like it's going to be a difficult part to find so we have to improvise until the right pulley shows up....

I thought I'd use just one belt to drive the two water pumps instead of the 2 belts it came with.....Then I'll shimmed out the generator about an inch to get it over that 2nd pulley...

Or, I could take the 2nd pulley off completely, still drive the 2 water pumps with the one belt and use a longer belt to come off the 2nd pulley on the crank shaft and go all the way up to the generator and drive it that way....

What do you guys think?.....I'm a little concern about the pulley sizes and the speed that the generator will turn because either pulley I use is bigger that the original one...

Mike

[harvey b]

would some measurements from my pulley help,i could measure it and it might give you an idea for what else might fit?apparently the friction drive was to make the generator spin faster for low speed driving so the battery would not discharge at low speeds,i think i have a spare one for the friction drive,i dont want to sell it,but could measure it easy.harveyb

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Yes Harvey that would be great, when you get a chance...the 3 pulleys nest inside each other, so I have to find a pulley that is the right size....from pictures I've seen that 3rd pulley is a good deal smaller than the other 2....

Your measurement....will tell me how much smaller....no hurry Harvey, when you get a chance....

Thanks,

Mike

[fishnjim]

Other than interest in these behemoths, I don't mess with pre-war, so I was just peeking following along, but it sounds like to me that, you're pulley might be the wrong one/year, ie, not missing the third, just not a 3.  So you might not find a third for it but a "3" groove(one piece). 
I ran into this on A/C cars, where a third belt was needed, but all non-A/C had two.   Some earlier '30s didn't have the gen on top, but they seem to all have the two running the water pumps.
I tried to get some photos of this and '39's so rare they aren't very helpful, or very many but the gen belt runs straight down(2 sources) from what I'm seeing which would indicate the two are the same diam..  You'd have to find a '39 V-16 owner to be sure.
'39 is a low production and last year, so not unexpected.
I'd look in the parts list and see what they offered.  Mine doesn't go back that far and my period motor manual didn't show the belts.
Might be one of those the CLC museum might have some info or drawings. 
Good luck.  Interesting stuff.
ps: I'm not even sure you can find something new that would work, but maybe off some other cars that fits.  That's the issue with rarity.  May have to make one, take a 3 groove and graft on your spindle hub.  Need a machine shop to get it true.

[harvey b]

Mike,heres my pulley,it looks to be part of the actual belt pulley which is seperate?.you can see the friction material on the inside of it,the generator has a round knob on it so it turns,kind of a wonky setup,it was a one year only deal. 

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Thank you Jim and Harvey !

Maybe we should get this thread transferred to the Technical section now because this, like Harvey said it's going to get wonky and strange.....

I was able to get diagrams and pictures of the 1938 and the 1939-40 V16 generator, water pump and fan belts from Brad Ipsen....Jim you are right, pictures of this are nowhere to be found...I was lucky Brad had them....

The diagram is a 1938 setup, you can see how the generators pulley actually rubs on the inside of that 3rd pulley behind the fan....It looks like Harveys photos show the "friction" rubber contact inside that 1938 pulley...That measurement Harvey shows how big that pulley should be when reproduced to a 1939 pulley and I thank you for that....

My 2 other photos show a 1939-1940 setup where a pulley and a belt setup is working.....

That 3rd pulley for my 1939 is probably going to be an unobtainable type part...So I'm going to try a work around until maybe someday that 3rd pulley shows up....

My plan is, instead of running 2 belts to drive the water pumps, run just 1 belt to drive the water pumps....then use the 2nd water pump belt pulley to drive the generator....I have to shim out the generator to reach out over that 2nd pulley....

You can see in my last 2 photos the before and after of my shims behind the generator bracket....

Then if someday that 3rd pulley shows up I can pull my shims and go back to the stock Brad photo....

Do you guys think this can work??

Mike

[harvey b]

I would try it,what do you have to lose?.the big thing will be making sure the generator is spinning fast enough to charge,but you likely wont be driving it every day,so shouldnt be a big deal.The flathead fords used something similar on their belt setup.If you want a pulley with 2 or 3 grooves,look at some motors in bigger trucks they had 2 or 3 belts on the generators,i think it was to make them more reliable in case one broke or was slipping,not a neccesity in your case.I would start looking at the swap meets for pulleys and the like,hopefully you can find something that will fit. good luck   harveyb

[fishnjim]

That 5538 pix is what seems to be right for '39 from the two I found.  I guess they gave up on the friction idea quickly.   
I'd last suggest to run the engine numbers and see if late '38 production or something to explain why it's that way.  Parts may have been scavenged while it sat(?).
I don't see any obvious issues with what's proposed so long as you don't modify something to where it can be undone when parts are available and new belts are proper size and aligned well.  Belt might get a little whippy after a few miles so need to keep an eye on tension and what the proper length would be.  This is pre-idler days.   
Faster is probably better than slower for the gen but will wear out if it's too fast.  VR will take care of excess output.  From what I remember they don't output much until around 6-700 rpm.   
If anything else crops up, I'll advise.  Glad you're saving this behemoth from the scrap pile.

'38 engine #s 5270001-315
'39      "           5290001-0138
'40      "           5320001-0061

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

All right, finally got a 15/16" spacer behind the generator bracket....also got the right size belts in place.....everything looks lined up and I think it may work....

I'll have to keep an eye on the voltage that comes out of the generator....The pulley that drives it now is bigger than whats it's suppose to have....does bigger pulley mean faster turning??

I'm still a ways off from starting this monster but we're heading in the right direction.

I don't know much about the motor but it looks like it was rebuilt...I've had the heads off and everything looks real clean.....I'll pull the oil pan next and see how everything looks.

I had the 2 distributors rebuilt and both water & fuel pumps rebuilt as well....fingers crossed !!

Mike