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1959 Autronic Eye Schematic

Started by Gabe Davis, May 29, 2023, 10:10:43 PM

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Gabe Davis

Hi all,

I'm chasing some headlight issues and my '59 Coupe DeVille has the Autronic Eye as part of the system.

Looking at the basic schematic that is part of the wiring diagram in the shop manual under the Accessories section, it does not match what is actually in the car. The manual shows that there are three tubes in the amplifier box and that there is a transformer. The amp box in the car only has two tubes and no transformer. The schematic also shows a transistor but I don't see one.

1959-Cadillac-AutronicEye-Manual.jpg

The connections are different too. The manual shows two separate spade type connectors going to the photo tube while on the car it is a single half moon connection.

I found a more detailed schematic of a Buick Autronic Eye. It seems to match what is in the Cadillac shop manual but shows values of components and measurements at test points. But it too does not match the actual hardware that is on the car.

1959-buick-autronic-eye-schematic.jpg

I read somewhere here or online that the Autronic Eye used in the '59 was a one year only setup. The older ones were high voltage and the newer ones have a totally different photo tube.

If anything, it looks more like the 1960 Guidematic info from the 1960 shop manual:

1960-Cadillac-Guidematic-Manual.jpg

This is what it looks like inside:

IMG_9075.jpg

Does anyone out there have the correct schematic for what is actually used on these cars? I'd like to test the values of the components and possibly repair it.
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

bcroe

That photo tube needs either a vibrator or a transistor
power supply to generate the high voltage. I suggest
someone fitted your car  with the vibrator version. 
Bruce Roe

Gabe Davis

That is the perplexing thing, there is no vibrator or transformer to step up the voltage.

Looking at the site about the GM Futureliner, there is a page that discusses the Autronic Eye and the different versions of it. It is written by the subject matter expert John Oldenbrug:

https://futurliner.org/autronic.htm

Specifically, in the section discussing the different versions over the years and across makes he states:

"The 1959 Cadillac and Oldsmobile unit was a one-year only unit, and a breakthrough in technology as this was the first of the low voltage units. The phototube was supplied with just 2.25 volts. This phototube was still large but the lens was oval and clear and there was a knob on the back to adjust the sensitively while driving. There was one exception a 1959 dealer installed unit that was a high voltage DC unit. The amplifier was mounted behind the kick panel (all amp's were here in 1959 through 1962 in Cadillac, all others 1958 through 1962) this phototube had a knob on the back of the eye as well and a clear round lens."

So this version is something different from the earlier versions. What is odd is that the information given in the 1959 service manual does not match up with what was put on the cars. There was a post on this forum of another member showing pictures of their '59 Autronic Eye amplifier unit. It matches what is on my car.

So the question remains, is there anyone out there with information about this "low voltage" version of the system used for 1959?
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

J. Gomez

@Gabe Davis

That would be correct with the article on the GM Futureliner from John Oldenburg and your assessment. The 1959 Autronic Eye model 559-1 for Cadillac and model 359 for the Oldsmobile were the "low voltage" units while the 1959 Cadillac model 559, Pontiac model 259, Chevrolet model 159 and Buick 459 where/are the "high voltage" ones.

The differences between them are;
1-   The "low voltage" units have two vacuum tubes on the amplifier (ballast 5947343 and amplifier 5948660), and two on the phototube unit which consist of the phototube and pre-amp assembly 5950495. "NOTE: there is no transformer on the LV unit"
2-   The "high-voltage" units have three vacuum tubes (ballast 5947343, rectifier 5949687 and amplifier 5948660 "plus" one transistor 5949386) all on the amplifier unit. NOTE: there is a step up transformer on the HV unit.
"Note: The sensitivity (driver control) is on "both" the phototube units LV and HV.

I'm attaching the schematic for the LV in your topic for reference, hope this helps.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

bcroe

Quote from: J. GomezThat would be correct with the article on the GM Futureliner from John Oldenburg and your assessment. The 1959 Autronic Eye model 559-1 for Cadillac and model 359 for the Oldsmobile were the "low voltage" units while the 1959 Cadillac model 559, Pontiac model 259, Chevrolet model 159 and Buick 459 where/are the "high voltage" ones.

The differences between them are;
1-   The "low voltage" units have two vacuum tubes on the amplifier (ballast 5947343 and amplifier 5948660), and two on the phototube unit which consist of the phototube and pre-amp assembly 5950495. "NOTE: there is no transformer on the LV unit"

I'm attaching the schematic for the LV in your topic for reference, hope this helps. Good luck..!

Interesting design, that photo tube does not have
ANY power applied.  The tubes I suppose are from
the same 12V plate series used in the 57-62 radios. 
We had no extremely high Z input field effect
transistors then, so it could not go all transistor. 
And that ballast tube still present, left over from
when they started converting 30s battery radios to
run on the power line.  Bruce Roe

J. Gomez

Quote from: bcroe on May 30, 2023, 05:26:42 PMInteresting design, that photo tube does not have
ANY power applied.  The tubes I suppose are from
the same 12V plate series used in the 57-62 radios. 
We had no extremely high Z input field effect
transistors then, so it could not go all transistor. 
And that ballast tube still present, left over from
when they started converting 30s battery radios to
run on the power line.  Bruce Roe

@bcroe

The phototube tube unit do has power for the filament about 2.5V and its drop down to 8V from the ballast tube and down via the large variable resistor (you know to old traditional brute force layout for voltage drop  ;D ).

The same 2.5V is applied to the cathode of the phototube via the sensitivity control for the tube conductivity from the cathode, the "plate" from it then control the screen grid of the amplifier tube 5948660 (which is the 12K5) as a driver which controls the relay for switching. 
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Gabe Davis

J. Gomez, this is great! Thank you for sharing the schematic.

Where did that information originally come from? I'd love to read the rest of the document and the troubleshooting guide that is beginning at the bottom of the page. The way that it is behaving now is that the high beams are always on when using the foot switch.

I was listening to it when turning on the headlights and waiting for the tubes to warm up. The relay in the amp clicks, latching and triggering the relay in the Power Relay section. So that probably unobtanium relay in the control circuitry appears to work. I wonder how many of the resistors have drifted out of spec. I've never seen a capacitor in that package either. It is in the bottom left corner of the photo of the inside.

1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

J. Gomez

@Gabe Davis



Quote from: Gabe Davis on May 31, 2023, 09:10:55 PMJ. Gomez, this is great! Thank you for sharing the schematic.

Where did that information originally come from? I'd love to read the rest of the document and the troubleshooting guide that is beginning at the bottom of the page.


Since my second hobby/work is in electronics, I have several volumes of Delco/UMS/Photofatcs, etc. which I collected through the years.

I'll be glad in sending a copy of this doc, just send me a PM with your email. I would need to get my back-up server up so it may be a bit to get access and search for the pdf file.


Quote from: Gabe Davis on May 31, 2023, 09:10:55 PMThe way that it is behaving now is that the high beams are always on when using the foot switch.

I was listening to it when turning on the headlights and waiting for the tubes to warm up. The relay in the amp clicks, latching and triggering the relay in the Power Relay section. So that probably unobtanium relay in the control circuitry appears to work. I wonder how many of the resistors have drifted out of spec. I've never seen a capacitor in that package either. It is in the bottom left corner of the photo of the inside.



If the relay inside the amplifier latches on after the tube warms-up and the foot-switch is on the correct position (auto-position) to energize the power relay, this could be an adjustment issue.

If you can't release the power relay by slightly pressing the foot-switch (to the over-ride position) while the foot-switch is on the same auto-position, this could be a wiring issue or ???.

These units are a bit tricky in both the adjustment and how the foot-switch is place.

Also, I do not think the resistors would be an issue with them, these have 10% tolerance and being a LV unit there would not be an excessive heat source as the older units have. FYI there is only one capacitor (silver piece on your picture) and that one is rock solid so no issues with it.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Gabe Davis

#8
Thanks for the additional troubleshooting info!

Currently, with the foot switch in the engaged position, the high beams stay on regardless of the current light conditions. Even when the eye is not covered up the high beams stay on. Fiddling with the Near-Far adjustment on the eye makes no change in behavior.

Hopefully now that I have the values to check on the test points I can dial things in.

All of the components look to be in very good condition with no corrosion or discoloration.

While I am no electronics expert, I do know enough to be dangerous. I was able to successfully restore a Fisher 800C all tube receiver from 1964.

IMG_9095.jpeg

It has 22 tubes in it and sounds incredible!

IMG_9096.jpeg

IMG_9098.jpeg

No, the 7591 output tubes aren't gassy, the long exposure of the camera makes them look extra blue.
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Gabe Davis

Interesting to note that the single capacitor is listed as a ceramic. So it should be fine. I've just never seen a ceramic in that silver tube package before.

I'll have to pull the car out and start checking voltages. If I'm lucky it is just an adjustment as stated by J. Gomez. A huge thank you, by the way, for providing the documentation!
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

bcroe

Quote from: Gabe DavisWhile I am no electronics expert, I do know enough to be dangerous. I was able to successfully restore a Fisher 800C all tube receiver from 1964.

Love the unique smell of the dust burning off the
tops of the tubes.  Bruce Roe

JayRudig390

#11
All due respect Gabe Davis. 99% of us could not care less about your vintage Wi-fi.  You want answers? Contact John Oldenburg but be respectful to him.

59-in-pieces

With all due respect to all of you.

The pics of all those multi-colored cylinders with stripes, colored wires, in the box - little tubes that glow  in the dark - that's the Devil's work.
None of that is real - right.
It's voodoo and beads, bones & shells in a black bag - shake it up and pour them out - kind of black magic, don't cha think.

Seriously, too much of the critical and fun stuff in the 59, radio, Autronic-eye, trunk pull down for instance, requires knowledge and experience that I just don't have or understand how to fix.

It's best to turn it over to the folks that know better, than for me to even attempt those repair tasks.

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

Lexi

Repairing and/or restoring an old car, especially one of these Cadillacs, requires a multi disciplinary approach utilizing many skills. Some things are indeed best left to the pros. Clay/Lexi