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Overheating ‘40 LaSalle

Started by Jamurray, September 20, 2022, 12:22:49 AM

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Jamurray

Without going into too much detail, I re-installed my original engine and have overheating issues. Nothing new, except I had the radiator rebuilt by someone I believe knew what he was doing. The water pump looks fine, the belt is tight, and the radiator blinds are in the full open position.

I'm not comfortable with the timing. It may be slightly retarded, but I remember being told crud accumulates on left rear section of the engine and a way to flush it out is to remove two head bolts and try to get water to push the crud out through the holes.

What two bolts should I remove?

Poncholover

That sounds a little scary to me! Maybe check the basics & check them again? Hopefully the radiator is right. Coolant outlets on the correct heads?
Either the engine is getting too hot or the radiator is not doing it's job, rarely both.
Keep us posted.
Flattie Caddy

wheikkila

The best thing to do is purchase a heat detector gun. They are inexpensive and we let you know how the system is working.
           Thanks Wayne

Alan Harris CLC#1513

First, how hot is it running? The gauge may or may not be accurate. Measure it with a thermometer.
Cadillac service bulletins of the time said that if it is not boiling, it is not overheating. The owners' manual said that the gauge could sometimes read "H" after a hard drive and that this was not a cause for concern.

If it is overheating, there is a rule. If it overheats at low speeds, you have a fan problem. If it overheats at higher speeds, you have a coolant circulation problem either in the radiator or the block.

I would not remove any head bolts except as an absolute last resort. Their removal could easily end in disaster.

Jamurray

15 minutes of driving in my neighborhood is all it takes to boil over. I'm out in the Golden State for the next week, I'll check block temperatures when I get back home. Thank you all for your help.

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Just for every one's info the head bolt trick was from Cadillac when these cars were new.  That is not the situation now.  If your engine has not been rebuilt it is almost for sure that the block is filled with some very solid rust plugging the cooling jacket.  My experience with these blocks is a lot of it takes a pick and hammer to get it out plus hot tank plus pressure washer.   
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

yachtflame

 I was told by a well know Caddie & Pearce Arrow guy to drain my cooling system, flush with water twice, the fill the system with EvapoRust which I bought from Home Depot. A special order item from them at $85 for a 5 gallon pail. I ran this in the car for the entire summer and it dropped the cars temp by 15 degrees. You then drain out and save the Evaporust, flush with water twice and refill with new antifreeze. It truly is amazing! I then used the same EvapoRust on my 1949 Jaguar and it brought that system down 10-15 degrees. I now use the same EvapoRust as a bath for rusty parts. It takes longer now that it's been used so much but it cleans the rust off without eating the good steel.
 My friend does this to all the cars in the collection that he cares for in Florida. He especially does this before tearing down an engine. It cleans the inside like new and makes the disassembly a hole lot cleaner to work on.
 I have no connection with EvapoRust, just love the stuff!
Wayne Elsworth
CLC #17075

39LaSalleDriver

Quote from: yachtflame on September 25, 2022, 07:43:47 AMI was told by a well know Caddie & Pearce Arrow guy to drain my cooling system, flush with water twice, the fill the system with EvapoRust which I bought from Home Depot. A special order item from them at $85 for a 5 gallon pail. I ran this in the car for the entire summer and it dropped the cars temp by 15 degrees. You then drain out and save the Evaporust, flush with water twice and refill with new antifreeze. It truly is amazing! I then used the same EvapoRust on my 1949 Jaguar and it brought that system down 10-15 degrees. I now use the same EvapoRust as a bath for rusty parts. It takes longer now that it's been used so much but it cleans the rust off without eating the good steel.
 My friend does this to all the cars in the collection that he cares for in Florida. He especially does this before tearing down an engine. It cleans the inside like new and makes the disassembly a hole lot cleaner to work on.
 I have no connection with EvapoRust, just love the stuff!

I guess you're luckier than me then. Last fall I decided to embark on this very plan and bought a five gallon bucket of Evaporust. Decided to hold off until this spring before flushing the system and doing it.

Background...I'd had "some" overheating issues in the past but seem to have overcome them the last couple of years. Long story there that I won't rehash right now. Anyway, had been on the lookout for some fixes for my own peace of mind and decided on this plan. I haven't driven it as much the last couple of years (mainly short, around town or 2-3 hour runs) but had it riding regularly at the halfway or 5/8 mark on the gauge. Yes, I know they aren't the most accurate, but I've found mine to be fairly consistent nonetheless.

So I drained the system, did a brief flush and put in the Evaporust. I also put a section of nylon stockings on the inlets for my radiator as a strainer. Ran with that for a 2-3 months (around town only) and found I was having to replace the stockings about every other time I drove it. Not a bad thing because it was catching crud, but a pain nonetheless. I also noted that it was running hotter than it has in some time.

Having planned for an extensive road trip about a month ago, I decided that I'd better go back to my normal mix and flush the system again. Drained the system, and the Evaporust was a deep black color like coffee without the brown tinge. Hooked up some tubing and PVC piping to the outlets, stuck a garden hose in the filler hole and let her fly for about an hour. About half the time with the engine off, the other half while running the engine. Also had all of my drain valves open and the ones on the sides of the block weren't flowing at all. So I'd get up in there with a coat hanger and start probing around. Finally, I started getting some movement. What I got a LOT of was a gray sludge which, pardon the description because I don't wish to be graphic, but started pushing out like poop. It had a semi-fluid, semi-solid consistency that I found disturbing. Later when checking my buckets of used Evaporust, I found at the bottom about a 2" layer of the same sludge which had the consistency of a fine mud that's been sitting at the bottom of a puddle.

I refilled the system with a 50/50 mix and went about my way but was finding that my temp gauge was shooting up way hotter than I was comfortable with. Like almost pegging hot just running around locally. Since I had a long run coming up, I determined to drain the system again. Now my normally green anti-freeze mix had turned to a milky like bright golden yellow color. Yet more mud like sludge at the bottom of the bucket. Flush the system again. More sludge out of my drains, but at least it was moving for the most part this time.

Concerned about what might be lurking inside the block that I WASN'T getting out I decided to pop out the core plug on the rear of the block on the drivers side (I had done so about 3 years ago so I could blast up in there with a pressure washer and replaced it with a Dorman copper expansion plug). What I found was a ton of that yellow sludge up in there that had turned to more of a clay consistency. I could literally sweep up in there with my fingers and dig big chunks of it out. I have a short pistol grip attachment with short right angle tubing for my pressure washer and blasted up in there until I couldn't get anything else out and could see and feel there wasn't anything left that could be reached.

Refilled the system with a 50/50 mix again. It did bring the temperature back down somewhat, but not to the level it was before I started this whole process. It would run anywhere from 5/8 to 3/4 mark. With some trepidation I decided to follow through with my long weekend run but literally kept one eye on the temperature gauge the whole 1,200 miles. There were a couple of touch and go moments when I got spooked it was going to boil over, but I got away with it without any serious incidents. Average ambient temps were in the mid-to upper 80s for the most part.

Two weeks ago, I decided to go as whole hog as I can without pulling the radiator and engine. Drained the system...again...more of the golden yellow sludge, but as before, it was all moving anyway. I then removed all of the core plugs except the two behind the engine mounts so I could hit as many of the cylinders as possible with the pressure washer.** Got a lot more of that clay like sludge out, though none were as heavy as it had been back on the drivers side firewall plug (yes, I pulled that one again too). Sealed it back up and filled with only distilled water this time.

This time, it did drop the temperatures down again a bit, but it still isn't what it was before I decided to "fix" it. My current plan is that I'm going to run it for another 2-3 weeks and then drain and flush it again (leaving core plugs in this time), and see where I'm at. If I'm still getting a bunch of sludge, I'll run it through the mill again; but if it looks more like colored water I'll probably go back to the 50/50 mix for the winter.

If the temperature is still riding up higher than I want, I guess the next step is going to be pulling the radiator and having it looked at. No telling what has settled in the bottom tank of it too, and quite frankly, I may have been chasing my tail somewhat when the radiator has been the issue all along. Even still, I'm glad I got up in the block and blasted it as much as can be done, it certainly didn't hurt it.

Before I end my tale though, one other curious note that has bothered me extensively is the fact that I can't get more than 5-5 1/2 gallons of fluid into or out of my system. That means that there's at least 1 1/2-2 gallons that I can't account for. I've kinda been of the mindset that it was being displaced by crud in the block and/or radiator, but I'm beginning to believe it may be more of a radiator issue than the block. Time will tell I suppose, but that's going to have to wait until next spring.

Anyway, long and short of it is in the end it hurt me more than helped. Maybe I did something wrong...I dunno. But if I had to do it all over again I probably wouldn't. I don't regret blasting out the block like I have, but I have a feeling I'm going to be chasing this yellow sludge stuff for some time now. Hopefully, others will have better luck than I did.




** Side note here, as mentioned above, I know that back in the day Cadillac gave the procedure to pull the head bolts, etc. to clean down in there. However I also fall into the school that while it was well and good to do that when those bolts were new, I would be taking a massive gamble to do that today some 80 odd years later. I have no idea what condition my head bolts are in and have no intention of trying to break them off unless I am having the engine rebuilt. I also can't believe that the "old" method was any better than what I can achieve with my modern 2,300 psi pressure washer blasting up into the core plug holes.


Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019