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1941 Tire Jack and Stand Experience

Started by J. Russo, December 03, 2022, 10:25:45 AM

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J. Russo

I wanted to share an experience I had yesterday when my right front tire went flat while driving my Series 63. Photos attached for reference.

A few days ago I posted the need for a fitting that is attached to the bottom rear spring for the jack stand used to keep the wheel above ground after jacking up the rear tire. I reached out to a couple of folks to see if they had the part for my right rear spring. One of those folks was Marty Watkins who recommended I don't use the original jack that came with the '41 models as they aren't very reliable. Marty recommended that I purchase a small floor jack instead with a couple blocks of wood and keep it in the trunk.

Well, I decided yesterday to take my Cadillac for the longest ride since I've owned it and test out the engine performance, front suspension and the brand new Firestone bias ply tires with tubes I purchased. I wanted to drive about 50 miles. The car ran beautifully.

At about mile 45 the car started shaking violently on the highway at about 55 MPH. I tried changing lanes thinking it may have been the pavement which didn't help. I then reduced my speed which helped to a degree and then pulled off the highway to see what was happening. It turns out my right front tire was low and then went completely flat as I was looking at it.

I proceeded to use the jack to raise the wheel and then the stand to place under the car in order to remove the wheel per the instructions in the shop manual. I didn't have the shop manual with me and I wasn't as familiar with placement of the stand for the front tire. The rear is much more straight forward. I called Marty and he instructed me where to place the stand, which is under the suspension arm. I was then able to complete the removal of the flat tire and installation of the spare tire. I made it home fine.

Now for the important part of this experience, mainly for owners who may never have had to use this jack. I was lucky to have had a friend with me to help place the stand under the front end suspension arm while I jacked up the wheel. This would be difficult for one person to maneuver, especially in inclement weather. Luckily for us it was a beautiful day. The jack fits under the top lip of the rim. The jack shaft itself is not very thick and also does not appear to be very stable, especially when jacking up the front of the car due to the weight. I'm taking Marty's excellent advice and will purchase a small floor jack for this purpose in the future. The jack and stand will be used for show purposes.

Now to figure out why my tube went flat as I can't find any punctures in the tire.

Thanks,
John Russo
CLC Member #32828

Chris Cummings

John,

Thank you for posting that complete and instructive account!  I owned and drove a couple of 1941 Cadillacs in high school and college.  Prior owners of both had sensibly discarded the original jacks.  If NHTSA or the IIHS had been around in 1941, GM would have been pounced on for that arrangement.  When I first read the instructions in the 1941 owner's manual for using the original jack, my jaw dropped.  I get that using a regular bumper jack is not a good idea.  The long rear springs, especially, mean that you have to run a bumper jack almost all the way up to get the wheel off the ground. And then leaning under the raised car to place that stand is further food for fright.  But sticking a metal finger under the edge of the wheel rim and using that precarious contact point to lift the car is nuts.  Marty has the right idea.

Good luck with your tire.

Chris Cummings
20072

harry s

John, Congratulations on your successful use of the '41 jack and stand as instructed in the manual. Sorry about the flat but sharing your experience is priceless. Marty is right, Harbor Freight has some nice floor type jacks made of aluminum and boxed that don't take up much room in your trunk. It will be interesting to see what caused the flat in light of having new tires and tubes. Keep us posted.    Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Bob Schuman

Adding to the comments of Marty, Chris, and Harry, I strongly agree the 41 jack and stand are a terribly unsafe design, good only for display in the trunk. Buick also used that jack, in 1940 and 41 if memory serves. I have never seen one used, and hope I never do.
Now, why did your new tire go flat? I may have some helpful insight, if your new tires have inner tubes in them.
Several years ago three friends bought Coker Firestone branded 700-15 size whitewalls and tubes for their 41 Cadillacs and a 47 Lincoln. All had one or more flats very soon after driving on the new tires, two or maybe three on the Lincoln, as I recall. The cause in all cases was the same-a small label or sticker on the inside of the tire casing, stuck to the tire inner surface, and having sharp square corners. It was very hard to see, being colored black like the tire. As the car was driven, the corners of the sticker loosened and chafed the inner tube until a hole was worn, and a flat occurred. Disassembly, peeling off the offending sticker, and patching the tube was the repair process used, with no further flats. That was some 20 years ago, so this may or may not be your problem.
My suggestion is to very carefully inspect the inside of the tire that went flat, and remove any such stickers or labels that may be found. If you do find any, it would be good to dismount and inspect the remaining tires before they also go flat.
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

J. Russo

Here is what I found. Photos attached.

I removed the tire and the tube from the rim.
I inspected the inside of the tire and the rim where the tube makes contact. I also felt the entire inside of the tire for any sharp areas and found no issues. The outside of the tire is also not punctured.
 
There are no stickers or labels inside the tire. 

I DID find a loose string that is imbedded in the tire on each end and has about 6 inches loose in between. I'm afraid to try to pull the string out. The string looks like it is chorded but it is not sharp to the touch. I found a couple other spots where this string is exposed about a half inch.

One photo shows the string inside the tube with my markings showing the curve and the length.
The tube photos show a curved slit in the tube and on each side is a curved marking that looks like it is the same thickness as the thread.

Now I'm not a tire or tube expert, but if anybody has an idea that this string inside the tire could have caused the tube to be slit, please let me know. I'm going to call the Tire Co. on Monday.

Thank you all
Thanks,
John Russo
CLC Member #32828

39LaSalleDriver

Quote from: J. Russo on December 03, 2022, 10:25:45 AMNow to figure out why my tube went flat as I can't find any punctures in the tire.


I put new Coker tires and tubes on mine about three years ago and had a flat soon thereafter. Fortunately it went flat in the driveway not on the road. What I found was the there was at least one very small pinhole in my innertube. Don't know why or how, but there it was. Got a new innertube and haven't had any problems since.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

Roger Zimmermann

John, I'm not either an expert for tires. In my opinion, this is a defective tire due to a sloppy manufacturing. At your place, I would see if the other tires have the same issue.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Jim Miller

Not being a tire guy, I'm curious. The tires on my '41 are tubeless. Would they originally been tubed  tires and do they do anything to the wheels to go from tubed to tubeless?
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX

J. Russo

In addition to the above information I provided in this post, I was able to confirm today that the area where my tube was cut was lined up with the loose material inside the tire.

The tire company confirmed today that the tire I bought is defective. They are sending me a new tire and tube.
Good Deal!!

Thanks,
John Russo
CLC Member #32828


GBrown #8092

Good to hear that they stood behind it.

I recall and experience of a similar type on a driving tour, where a member was driving his '39 LaSalle on a brand new set of tires and had a similar failure.  He was very experienced with the rim jack and stands, but couldn't get the jack high enough to get the stand under it.

Fortunately, I had a rental car (a mid 90's full-sized Olds as I recall), which had a very compact scissor jack which did the job of raising it high enough to use the stand.

I currently keep a trolley jack in my '57, but they are heavy and with its case it takes up a lot of room in a small trunk.  While a Series 63 is also a big heavy car, one of those scissor jacks to assist might be an option. I recall it even had a case mounted on the trunk wall. Though, I think it would be wise to find out what their weigh capacity is before using one.