My '52 Coupe de Ville ... a very tired old girl indeed

[Macabry]

Hello to you all,

This is my first post to the forum and I hope to keep some semi-regular posting on my project,  whilst this is by no means my first restoration,  she is my first Cadillac ( and boy have I learned some lessons  )

Lessons learned:
- deep pockets help (Caddy's are an expensive addiction)
- parts availability is better than I expected (not chevy c10 or VW bug standard,  but not awful either...as long as you have the $$$)
- she is overengineered (why use one bolt when you can use twelve)
- she is a real heavyweight (curb weight is marginally less than the titanic)

Anyway, I bought this tired old girl about 5 years ago, I literally fell in love with her ... I've wanted a 52/53 coupe since I was about 7 and I just let my heart rule over my head 😂 ... I promised myself I'd start work on her once I'd finished my other projects ( 4 rebuilds ) and that day finally arrived about a month ago. I've started stripping her down and I'm getting to grips with the work needed... she's fought me the whole way, she's a miserable old thing some days and she'll turn a 5 minute job into a days work but I'm still smitten ... lately I've worked on old impalas and c20s and I've always had old French Citroens but this '52 is in a different league ... (my wife reckons I've got a bit of an Arnie Cunningham thing going on 😂)

She's the rattiest mismatched old beast and she's exactly what I've wanted. She had a front end smash years back and has various years front end trim (the frame is straight), the engine isn't matching numbers, the hydrolectrics are shot, there is some rust (but not too much), the chrome is awful, the interior is terrible and she needs complete rebuilding

But, this is exactly the car I wanted ... I do not want and original car to worry about and to restore to factory ... she will be a clean rebuild but with modifications that I want and a mild custom interior and mild custom paint colours ... I'm not going to cut/chop anything and I'm not switching out the 331.
If I'd have bought a better car I'd have felt bad to not keep her factory, in this condition she's lucky she wasn't parted out

The good:
- she's the car I've always promised myself
- the engine is smooth
- the body isn't too bad
- the frame is very very solid
- she's nicely undersealed

The bad:
- front end will need fine tuning to fit nicely (A job I hate)
- there is rust in the roof

The ugly:
- the chrome is terrible
- the glass is delaminating in places

Wish me luck,
Shane

[James Landi]

Shane,

Looks to be a substantial project, and yet, she's on all fours, and, apparently, the engine "runs smooth."  To what extent is it road worthy?  Do you have any history?   Many of us truly enjoy narratives and pictures of the resortation process, and I hope we can look forward to observing your progress.    James

[Bob Schuman]

Shane,
Are you sure you have a 1952? From the photo it looks like a 1950 Series 62 Coupe DeVille, similar to the 51 and 52 models but with enough changes to make a difference in some parts.

[Macabry]

Thanks for the replys folks, yes she's a very very substantial project ... this is purely for the love of it, she'll never be worth the hours financially 

The 331 isn't her original engine but it's very quiet and smooth  ( you almost can't tell it's running unless you gun it ) ... and the front end has been rebuilt and she's got fairly good brakes ... she was running/driving until I took the interior out and stripped the front end bodywork

She has no electrics though, only the starter and interior lights work/worked as the loom is trash ...

The frame is original to the body and that's a '52 and the engine and transmission are '52 ... the interior parts threat I've stripped have also had some date marks (the clock) abd that's 1952 as well... but, you're right to notice the front end ... the grill/sidelights/side valance panels are from what appears to be a 1950 or possibly 51 car (I found a clue that the front valance panel has paint and aging that matches a mismatched sideskirt on the rear, this leads me to believe that she was (at least partially) donated to by a single parts car, likely a 1950 coupe ... but who knows 

As for history, I know very little,  I know shes originally a SF Bay Area car,  and that's backed up by the corrosion (it's more what I'd expect from a seaside car than from a really damp climate car) ... the old title has her previous San Francisco details and she was last titled in 1993 ... the condition suggests to me she didn't do much in the last 30 years other than deteriorate 

I can't remember the production date, but I'll check the vin again when I remember 

Regards,
Shane

[Macabry]

Just spent 5 hours stripping the interior floor and I reckon there was about 20lbs of pitch/tar in the footwells ... what a joy that was  ... see the pics

Still content with the floorpan overall ...

[Macabry]

So the data plate suggests that she is a series 62, CDV, 1952 and was originally Aleutian green with Dark Green Swiss Dot Bedford & Light Green Metallic Leather interior... this ties in with what I'm finding under the hideously bad white paint job...

Accessories:
Factory delux heater, Factory tinted glass,  dealer fitted Autronic eye, dealer fitted radio/foot switch

As for other anomalies on the data plate ... there is a number "10" stamped alongside the accessories section and I have no idea what this means ... see pic

Anyone got any ideas?



Regards,
Shane

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

With those two staples in the bottom of the ID Plate, could this vehicle have been a SO (Special Order) build?

Bruce.

[James Landi]

So great to hear that the engine is in wonderful condition, and that you can likely get the car to be increasingly improved for roadworthiness. Obviously you made a good choice in selecting this vehicle, and as you initially stated, putting efforts into getting it back into reasonable shape. Not with standing the extraordinary effort you are making, it must be reassuring to know that, over time, you'll have a sweet running machine to enjoy and present to others who will appreciate it.  Keep those pictures and narratives coming.    James

[Macabry]

I didn't know that is what those staples on the data plate meant ... thanks Bruce,  even more reason to send away for her build sheet 

Thanks James,  I reckon she's the right choice for me, I've had trailer queens in the past and I worried about where I parked them,  worried about the weather and just didn't drive them enough ... it was actually quite counterproductive owning them for me. She's definitely gonna be a driver and she'll never be a show car but I reckon she'll turn a head or two 

Thanks folks,
Shane

[Macabry]

So.... more stripping done (insert innuendo here) 🤣 ... gutted the trunk and removed the horrible soundproofing. The whole underside of the car and the inner rear wings are covered in a very thick stippled underseal ... it's seems to have worked except in the spare wheel well (which is rotted out)

Got the headliner and bows out (recorded positions and photographed them as I did) and guess what ... yep more rust 😂 (I knew it was there already so no surprises) there is a small section above both doors that'll need a patch cut and fitted ... on the plus side,  I'm surprised how easy the headliner was to remove and so glad it isn't tucked under the glass as in some classics.

As for what I'll do next ... I'm not sure, I need to wire wheel the whole interior and I'll need to remove the underseal from the trunk 😪 ... neither are "fun" jobs ... I really want to get the rear wings off so I can assess them and the inner wings,  and I'd love to drop the tank to assess that ... who knows ...I not even going to think about fabricating repair panels yet (that said, I'll probably use a modified Shoebox Ford wheel well panel)

If anyone has a magic tip for removing this underseal stuff please let me know ...

Regards,
Shane

[Macabry]

No idea why my pics always seem rotated ... they aren't like that in my albums ? ... sorry

[James Landi]

Shane,

I get the entire psychology of the trailer queen.  This '07 XLR I own is such an extraordinary car, so much so, I don't feel comfortable driving it for all the reasons you stated.  Your sweat equity and your saving your car from the junk yard are a lasting satisfactions.  As you likely know, a number of members have "blasted rust and undercoating."  You might consider opening up a new thread topic that focuses solely on this work--- as  you well know, any approach that can save time, effort, and your lungs is worth knowing.  James   

[Macabry]

Thanks James 👍

I've always enjoyed the "sweat equity" element of car restoration although it makes it impossible for me to watch car restoration shows on tv. I really can't stand this TV approach recently of spending $5000 on a car, putting $1000 of parts and 100 hours of labour into it and selling it for $6500 to call a $500 profit    ... at that rate a 12 year old in a Taiwanese sweatshop makes more that me an hour 🤣🤣🤣

I'm back in the shop tomorrow so I think I'll have a go at the rear wing removal ... then maybe some more underseal scraping ... then maybe some more scraping ...🙃

Might start a thread on underseal as you suggest, I'll try to take some more pics for it first ... from what I gather it was never a factory option on these '52 cars ... as for benefits vs problems, I've seen cars where the underseal managed to ensure water held against the metal and rusted more than a bare steel car, however the variables seems to be:
- application thoroughness
- thickness
- areas applied
- prevailing climate
- base metal quality
- body shape/edges etc.

Overall the '52 cdv certainly has good quality steel, the edges are well coated, the climate was salty, the undercoat was well applied and thickly but not everywhere .... the rust I've found so far was not undercoated.... and I've not had ANY place on the car that was undercoated show any water/rust ingress. In the trunk (where there was a water leak) when I scraped back the undercoat it's shiny bare metal underneath 👍👍👍

[James Landi]

SO perhaps leave the original good undercoat in place? Apparently, moisture trapped even in the passenger compartment caused rust on your roof.  So knocking off the rust begs the question, what goes over those rust prone surfaces...   James

[Macabry]

I wish ...😃👍 ... unfortunately I need to get her back to bare metal for several reasons:
- to assess the entire bodyshell
- to ensure I have no rust hidden under the current undercoat
- I'll be adding new rustproofing/seamsealer/undecoat and I don't trust applying anything new over old underseal

As for my personal choice of floorpan treatment:
- Strip to bare metal
- Cut out old rust
- Weld in fresh metal (I worked 11 years as a metalsmith so making custom flush panels doesn't bother me)
- Prime (corrosion resistant primer used in shipping industry)
- seamsealant to sharp edges and corners etc.
- Corrosion resistant topcoat
- Underseal the floorpan and vulnerable points
- cavity wax

This pretty much what I do on all my cars ... works well for daily drivers and is very very tough/durable.

I used to use POR15 ... found it doesn't work on flexible areas (I consider the Coupe way way too flexible in the body) and has the same drawbacks as powder coating. I have found Upol raptor good in solid floorpans but it's not good on sharp edges ... (when I say "not good" I mean as corrosion resistance, it's great for flatbeds)...

I know this whole topic is a hornets nest, so each to their own, but I've found what works for me in my climate with my application regime 😎👍

[Jerome506237DX]

If your underseal is of the same composition as the one that I have on my '56 Oldsmobile (which I almost have down to bare metal now), you might try to use petrol or a degreaser to dissolve the tar/bitumen like substance. I used a paint scraper to remove the thickest parts and the remains were removed with old petrol from my fueltank.

Good luck!

Jérôme

[Macabry]

Sounds like it is, so far I've used a chisel, a few scrapers and it gets the heavy stuff off in large chunks ... I'll give petrol a go 👍

[Macabry]

Spent another few hours on the underseal today ...🙃 focused on the trunk ... I've put before and after pics below 👍

There's still some to do but it's getting there
.. slowly

For a bit of interest I removed the passenger side rear wing .. what and amazing piece of metal stamping it is too ... 8' long and those curves for the fin ... really amazing,  imagine the cost of that today 😲😲😲

The condition of the wing is pretty good,  it's got a couple of bad repairs and holes but it's straight and won't need much to restore ... very interesting to see what looks like a quality inspectors mark inside it  😃

The inner wing/body underneath it in astoundingly good condition ... beautiful original paint and ...more underseal 🙃... absolutely no corrosion at all ... yay

Saving the best til last ....

Having read more about vin/build numbers I thought I'd double check the frame numbers ... and guess what ... the engine and frame match 😎👍 ... I am not sure why I thought they didn't ... maybe I was thinking of the body number ...I think it's because the dealer I bought her from was so shady (he was a scumbag, once I'd paid for her and arranged shipping he stopped answering calls and closed up his shop to stop the driver loading her ... I ended up using a friends phone and threatening police and legal action before he eventually opened up and let the guy load it... bear in mind this was a dealer, not a private seller !!!)
So I've always assumed the worst ... I'm absolutely delighted to find this out today,  the title/vin/engine numbers all match ...😎

So ... a really really great day so far👍

[jdemerson]

Shane,
Are you sure you have a 1952? From the photo it looks like a 1950 Series 62 Coupe DeVille, similar to the 51 and 52 models but with enough changes to make a difference in some parts.

Shane,

I'm nearing the end of a frame-on restoration of a 1952 Series 62 Sedan, so am enjoying following your posts. It is terrific that your CDV has turned out to be numbers-matching!

The grill and front bumper assembly are definitely from a 1950, as Bob Schuman said. Those who know the 1950-53 generation Cadillacs would spot the difference easily, but no one else would. 

The discussion of the undercoating is interesting. It sounds as if the undercoating did the job in preventing rust, even though your car is very rusty and has been in a rust-prone environment. Of course that is yet to be fully verified... Many people don't know that Cadillac authorized the use of undercoating by dealers in the 1950s (and presumably 1960s), and provided some written "advice". The undercoating was supplied by Cadillac (at least in some circumstances) and had a GM label on the can. I can't  guarantee this was true in 1952, but can verify it for later 1950s. I have a GM accessories brochure that advertised the undercoating as a dealer option and it shows an image of the can. BTW, I am convinced that the quality of the application had as much to do with the effectiveness of the undercoating in preventing corrosion as did the composition of the material used. Of course, Cadillac promoted undercoating at least as much for its sound insulation as for protection against corrosion. All that said, I do understand that we don't know if your undercoating was original to the new car or was applied years later.  As best as I can tell, mine was original...

Best of luck, and please do continue with the updates!

John Emerson

[Andrew Trout]

My '61 had an undercoating as well. The removal process was:

• Eye & ear protection
• Gloves
• Handheld heat gun
• multi-tool with scraper attachment
• Patience to work in small sections at a time

It took a long time to get the inner fender wells and other support members cleaned up so they could be powder coated.