1938 60S Project Car $8900 Not Mine - SOLD $5,000

[Bryan J Moran]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1580549582306488

From the seller - 

1938 Cadillac 60 Special ***PROJECT CAR*** in original paint color of Cloud Mist Metallic Green. If you can read this ad the car is still available for sale. This is a solid car that is 98% rust free That starts, runs, drives, stops and does not overheat.  Actual mileage unknown. This 1938 Cadillac 60 Special is a project car worthy of restoration. NOTE: this was recently a very nice car but during its previous ownership, about 8-10 years ago, the body received several dents when roof of the building it was stored in collapsed due to snow load. This put dents in the car's roof, hood, and fenders. Some dents are minor and more significant. The dents can be hammered out and final body work and paint completed. It also needs a completely new interior upholstery job (seats are still there) and door panels need reupholster, needs a headliner and carpet set.  I have a brand new correct headliner for the car from SMS upholstery still in the box and not installed. Some assembly on the dash is needed for the radio speaker grills and speedometer, I have those parts.  It has good correct wide white wall tires that hold air. Full wheel disc chrome hubcaps. Much of the chrome has been replated and it comes with the original glass and chrome winged goddess hood ornament (not currently mounted on the hood). Car is solid. Floors and trunk pan or solid. Car has always been stored indoors. The only significant rust is in the roof right above the drivers side rear door. The listing photos were taken on December 6 and December 12, 2021. It has the original flathead V-8 346 cubic inch engine that runs well and smoothly, it starts dependably on the original 6 volt system. This was designer Bill Mitchell's first car design at General Motors and is a milestone car, less than 1500 produced in 1938.
If this ad is up the car is still for sale. I have clear Michigan title in my name in hand.
Price is $8,900 cash, sorry no trades. The reason I am selling the car as I have too many projects. If you can see this post the car is still for sale.

******************

My comments - would this be a good one to restore?  It does look solid but rear body denting scares me a bit and the drivers front fender.  Still, this to me is an attractive optimistic paint for depression period 1938, when most 60S were black. 

[wrench]

Look, I hate to be a hard a**, but this car had an incident that any responsible owner would have had an insurance claim on and then they never fixed the car. I'd like to see the paper trail on that one.

Sorry, nice car, over priced and if I had to come up with a nickname for it, I would call it 'Trunk Monkey' because that what it needs. A chimpanzee to come out of the trunk and do some of the body work while you are in the grocery store.

[James Landi]

Bryan,

I respectfully disagree with Jim's assessment for the following:  The seller is knowledgeable and the description and narrative provide what appears to be a reasonably honest, and detailed presentation of the car's condition.  In this regard, the present owner is a rare bird in contrast with most of the folks who plead the 5th but want your cash on these web sites.  It's safe to assume that pulling out the dents and resurfacing the body will require a lot of time and effort--- so that's baked into a close visual inspection.  Some of the rechroming looks good and adds value.  If the engine, drivetrain, chassis, and running gear are in good order, it looks like it could be desireable, ... herein, the issue of the asking price is not entirely relevant--- rather, the question is, if you were gifted the car, would you have the enthusiasm expertise, patience, and resources to bring it back in to reasonable good order and enjoy the project.   I've followed some folks on this website who have taken us through the challenges, and clearly derive a good deal of personal satisfaction....    THanks for posting---James

[Bryan J Moran]

Although I most recently owned a 76 CdV and a 1993 Allante, and generally gravitate toward the 60's and 70's, I believe if I jump back into the hobby it will be that 1938 to 1947 sweet spot.  1938 60S are obviously significant cars, and I like that this one is not black or even dark blue. 

But it is a lot of work.  That area right above the passenger rear door is rust OUT.  Body work and paint on this will be substantial.   Interior - same.  So yes it is over priced but getting a seller to come down on price is tough.

I may have mentioned before but there is a nice 1940 60S for sale about 6 miles from me.  It started at $27,500 (dealer) and he recently dropped to $24,500.  This 1938 represents 1/3 of that cost alone. 

[harry s]

...as mentioned before, another example of a worthy project way over priced. One of our local chapter members sold an identical car to this one for $8500. His car was running, driving mechanically sound with a serviceable interior and no body damage or rust. Yes he probably could have gotten a little more but the point is if you are serious about selling the price has to be reasonable.     Harry

[wrench]

Bryan,

I respectfully disagree with Jim's assessment...

As always, you are the better man than I. I agree with your assessment of my assessment.

With that being said, someone, somewhere along the line did one of two things. Either they had no insurance and the barn collapsed and diminished the value of the vehicle severely, or, based on the nice condition of the car pre-incident, had an insurance claim on the car, pocketed the cash, sold off the diminished value and now the car is marketed with severely diminished value for way more than it's worth.

I have seen a line for title status on other FBM ads. I don't see that line on this ad.
May be a simple oversight.

With all the topics posted here recently about the lack of real price discovery in the market for old Cadillacs, this car has very clear indications of loss of value that is not included in the asking price.

Minus the body work, paint and interior, the car is under water from the get go.

[Bryan J Moran]

As always, you are the better man than I. I agree with your assessment of my assessment.

With that being said, someone, somewhere along the line did one of two things. Either they had no insurance and the barn collapsed and diminished the value of the vehicle severely, or, based on the nice condition of the car pre-incident, had an insurance claim on the car, pocketed the cash, sold off the diminished value and now the car is marketed with severely diminished value for way more than it's worth.

I have seen a line for title status on other FBM ads. I don't see that line on this ad.
May be a simple oversight.

With all the topics posted here recently about the lack of real price discovery in the market for old Cadillacs, this car has very clear indications of loss of value that is not included in the asking price.

Minus the body work, paint and interior, the car is under water from the get go.

Jim,

You make some excellent points for sure.  This car likely did not have insurance on it or it was paid and here you have it.  Salvage title?  Maybe.  Not sure what Michigan's laws are. 

I have it "saved" on Facebook so I will see if he drops the price, but giving it away places a new owner who wants to restore under water already.  Many of these cars can be given away and the restoration would be underwater. 

Somewhere between $0 and $8900 is a price to pay for this car.  I'll try to keep track of it.

[holydagmars]

Among other caveats, it is important to keep in mind that the 60S, as a special body, incorporates quite a bit of structural wood in the sills, in the rocker panel support structure, and elsewhere.  If that wood is bad (in which case zero might be a fair purchase price for the car), all bets are off concerning what it would take to restore the body's integrity.

[Bryan J Moran]

Among other caveats, it is important to keep in mind that the 60S, as a special body, incorporates quite a bit of structural wood in the sills, in the rocker panel support structure, and elsewhere.  If that wood is bad (in which case zero might be a fair purchase price for the car), all bets are off concerning what it would take to restore the body's integrity.

Charlie

I have heard a lot about the structural wood being an issue. Sills, to me that means rocker areas or is this wood above the doors or where?  How would one determine quality of wood if it can not be seen? 

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

Wood is between the frame and body cross beams and floor.  It provides the main north-south beam strength for the body.  The rocker panel you see is just thin sheet metal with no boxing.  It covers the side of the wood.  The rocker panel bottom folded edge screws into the bottom of the wood.  Wood is open and ready for inspection from below for the most part.  Rubber pads exist between the wood and the frame except for the two front body bolts (4 total) which have anti-squeak pads only.  It is a rare car that has good wood but they do exist.   

[Bryan J Moran]

Pending now so perhaps someone is buying.  No way to know how far down he came. 

[Bryan J Moran]

Restoration.   Beautiful unique color. I'll bet most of the 1938 60S are black.  The seller asked me what my price was.  I did not respond but $5,000 stuck in my head. 

[Ohjai]

Here is my 1938 60S and it is only partially black.

[mattwilk1972]

It is now mine and I'm having fun with the car. It runs and drives. It's all original everything. There is barely any rust at all on the car. I undercoated it with por-15. I want to post some pics of the car but not sure how to post on here.