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1970 Cadillac Deville right hand Mirror Question

Started by Bill Balkie 24172, June 25, 2022, 07:56:05 PM

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Bill Balkie 24172

Hello ,
    I purchased an Authentic Right Hand Mirror for my 1970 Coupe DeVille.This Mirror has the two holes in the base for the allen wrench . When i first mounted the mirror i thought it might have the wrong Pedestal because the right hand mirror  was not parallel  to the ground like the left hand mirror .i can fit two of my fingers between the left ( Drivers side ) hand mirror and the A pillar moulding. On the right the mirror is  much closer maybe a little more then one  finger . i looked up pictures ( Front Veiw ) of 1970 / 69 cadillacs with both mirrors . To my suprize the right hand mirror on every car that showed  both mirrors the right han mirror was noticeably  much closer .  i have added some pictures of the cars that i found on the internet .  I have also added a few of my car ( Byzantine Gold ) i am leaning towards  that is the way it should look . Any opoinions  would be appreciated .

  Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

The Tassie Devil(le)

Could it be that you actually have a mirror for the '70 Eldorado?

Plus, the Right Hand Mirror was one of those Dealer-fitted options, unlike the Left Mirror which all cars had standard by law.

The cars may have been delivered to the initial owner with no Right Mirror, then the Second owner may have wanted one, and the fitter wasn't too careful in following instructions?

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Bill Balkie 24172

#2
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 25, 2022, 08:09:17 PMCould it be that you actually have a mirror for the '70 Eldorado?

Plus, the Right Hand Mirror was one of those Dealer-fitted options, unlike the Left Mirror which all cars had standard by law.

The cars may have been delivered to the initial owner with no Right Mirror, then the Second owner may have wanted one, and the fitter wasn't too careful in following instructions?

Bruce. >:D
That could be true . But every 70 Cadillac  I can find with both mirrors  the right is always closer . That is why I am posting the question .
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

I be also installed with the type of hardware they were Designed to use . So I could use the Allen wrench .The holes are mounted on 2.180 centers (2 3/16 ) drilled out to .260 Diameter . Everything is mounted symmetrical. However the pedestals are not quite the same . Again I am not sure if this is correct or not .  I know this was a dealer installed item . Is it right or os it wrong ?
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

#4
The bottom line is it right or is it wrong ? If it right I will leave it that way . If it's wrong I want to
Make it right .
  It could be right but I would of thought cadillac would want symmetrical mirrors on both sides.

      Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

V63

Look
At the limousine as they were standard with them and see if they were symmetrical?

The Tassie Devil(le)

Not sure what those fastenings are as I have never seen them before.

I would have thought that the Factory would have used the same system of fastening the Left and Right Mirrors to the doors.   But, if the Right Mirror is attached to the door by an externally-mounted bracket, then I would have thought that simple NutSerts would be the best.

1971 they used nuts onto threads that were built-in to the mirror base, with a strengthening flange on the inside of the door skin.

As for having symmetrical mountings for Left and Right, Cadillac tried that in 1959 and '60, and the opposite mirror turned out to be a total waste of time, as it was useless as a viewing aid.

What does the Shop Manual say?

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Seville Life

Hello Bill

You are correct in believing Cadillac would have both door mirrors horizontal. I've checked my pictures and my Father's '70 Coupe deVille (then three years old) had the passenger door mirror, they are 100% horizontal.

Have you got the part number of the mirror you have fitted? Maybe it an Eldorado version?

Yes again those odd fasteners only applied to the early passenger door mirrors.

Paul
Paul Bedford

Bill Balkie 24172

Quote from: Seville Life on June 26, 2022, 03:44:57 AMHello Bill

You are correct in believing Cadillac would have both door mirrors horizontal. I've checked my pictures and my Father's '70 Coupe deVille (then three years old) had the passenger door mirror, they are 100% horizontal.

Have you got the part number of the mirror you have fitted? Maybe it an Eldorado version?

Yes again those odd fasteners only applied to the early passenger door mirrors.

Paul
Hello Paul , that is a very good question . There is a part number inside the mirror pedestal . I will have to take the mirror off to find out the number . If I have time I will do this morning . Thank you very much for the suggestion .
        Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

#9
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 26, 2022, 12:38:12 AMNot sure what those fastenings are as I have never seen them before.

I would have thought that the Factory would have used the same system of fastening the Left and Right Mirrors to the doors.  But, if the Right Mirror is attached to the door by an externally-mounted bracket, then I would have thought that simple NutSerts would be the best.

1971 they used nuts onto threads that were built-in to the mirror base, with a strengthening flange on the inside of the door skin.

As for having symmetrical mountings for Left and Right, Cadillac tried that in 1959 and '60, and the opposite mirror turned out to be a total waste of time, as it was useless as a viewing aid.

What does the Shop Manual say?

Bruce. >:D
Bruce , It is my understanding that the dealer installed mirror used a template and drilled thru the outter skin so they would not have to remove the inside door panel .
The installer  would drill into the door with two size drill bits. One  being a little over 9/16 ( .593 ) and another hole next to it 15/32 ( .265 ) and then turn that into what looks like a keyhole . install the mirror into the big hole and slide forward . Then tighten the mirror using the fastener . That is what the two access holes are for that are in the authentic  right hand mirror bass  . It is not an easy task drilling a .563 hole into a car door that is on a angle then filing a the keyhole shape . I found it easier to remove the door panel drill the holes (,265 ) a little bigger the a 1/4 inch  and installing that way. I could of used two 1/4 -28 studs with a washer and a nut . But i was able to make something using a highlock fastener and a spacer so i could use the allen wrench 3/32  and install it using the holes in the base of the mirror .i will add some pictures in a few minutes .

Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

Can anybody tell me what Cadillac part number this is for 60302-415 also the template number is 60303-410
I need to get to the bottom of this . If this mirror proves out to be correct for a 1970 Coupe DeVille  I will but it back on the car and not give it another thought . I just need to know for sure .
     Thank you ,
           Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Bill Balkie 24172

#11
Bruce the hardware came with the mirror and template . The dealer had to cut that shape into the outer skin of the door. Not an easy thing to do they must've had a router for this because they did not want to remove the inside door panel. They would drop The fasteners into the big hole and slid forward . I did not need to do this because I drilled two hole and installed the fasteners through the back.
And the passenger side door panel is the easy one to remove. I have added a picture of what the fastener looks like. The way you tighten the mirror to the car is through the holes that allow an Allen wrench to turn the fasteners tight. I added a few pictures for clarity.AA8EC33B-E3FA-4C19-9489-6A4DFD3DFDE1.jpeg
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

The Tassie Devil(le)

#12
G'day Bill,

Thanks for the pictures.   Now I understand how they work.

Having the screw hex visible from the outside of the car, I am thinking that there must have been two mirrors available for the Right side.   The Original one, without the holes, but having in-built threads for attaching nuts inside the door, and the one shown, with the holes.

But, looking at the rubber gasket, the shaping does not look like it is that good of a quality for a Cadillac part.   Looks like a cheap cut-out as it doesn't have the clean, crisp lines than one would expect from a Cadillac part.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

35-709

#13
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 26, 2022, 06:16:04 PM------------
But, looking at the rubber gasket, the shaping does not look like it is that good of a quality for a Cadillac part.   Looks like a cheap cut-out as it doesn't have the clean, crisp lines than one would expect from a Cadillac part.

Bruce. >:D
Agree, and in another of Bill's posts I replied that the part numbers he listed do not look like GM numbers, at least not from that era.  Could very well be an aftermarket mirror.  Would also think the instruction sheet would say "GM" on it somewhere.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bill Balkie 24172

Hello Bruce ,
     I did not have a rubber gasket .I made that myself .And Thanks for the compliment , just kidding .i feel something is not right with this pedesatal . i have got to get to the bottom of this .

   Thank You Bruce,
       Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

I have the wrong RH mirror on our 70. I took some thick rubber and beveled it to make a thick rubber wedge shaped gasket. Mirror is level now. You don't really notice it.
Jeff R.
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Bill Balkie 24172

Hello Jeff ,
     Where did you get the right hand mirror ?

  Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

#17
Quote from: Bill Balkie 24172 on June 27, 2022, 08:58:42 AMHello Jeff ,
    Where did you get the right hand mirror ?

  Bill
Ebay years ago. It is wrong but I didn't notice that until I had already drilled the holes.
After a brief panic, I made the beveled gasket. You can't really notice it unless you are looking for it.IMG_20160806_081500736.jpg
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Guys,
 Lots of RH mirror "experts" & WAGs. LOL!!
Bill, where did you get your mirror?? NOS or used? I assume you did not get the original gasket or mounting instructions?
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Bill Balkie 24172

#19
Bob , I got it from a very Reliable source a person that has been dealing in 70 Cadillacs probably for the last 50 years. He is in my opinion one of the most knowledgeable people.

Bob , Can you shed any more light on the right hand mirror I'm always willing to listen.
   
    Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS