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1959 Coupe DeVille Exhaust System

Started by Gabe Davis, September 18, 2022, 02:36:49 PM

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Gabe Davis

#20
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on January 18, 2023, 04:24:38 PMHere is a pic of an original cold rolled 59 wrap, to help document your journey.

Steve, thank you for sharing the picture of the original pipes! I searched the web high and low and was not able to find any.

It's interesting how tight the flex pipe is around the hard pipe. I wonder if they had a process that had both layers together before bending or if it was a slip on over the hard pipe. I'm sure they had some kind of jig or machine to do it.

I tried to get the 2 1/4" flex pipe on the hard pipe but the tighter bends kept it from going on. I would have had to cut slits in the flex to have any hope of opening up the radius. It had not been cut or modified in any way so I was able to return it. The 2 1/2" flex still put up a fight but I got it on.
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Gabe Davis

I have been reading this thread here:

https://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=166634.0

It discusses drilling a small hole in the muffler and/or the resonator to drain water from the system. I could see that for the resonator for sure. According to that thread there were even Cadillac service bulletins instructing to do so.

If that is done to the muffler is there any chance of hearing an exhaust leak? After removing all of the holes I'm a little hesitant about adding them back!  ???
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

bcroe

Just a comment, when I started building custom
SS exhaust systems to avoid that maintenance,
those straight rubber strap hangers supporting
a pipe seemed to transmit a lot of vibration. 
Seen in the foreground of the picture.  I
changed to OEM hangers which all seemed to have
some curves (background), with better results. 
Bruce Roe

jwwseville60

I have a Waldrons dual exhaust on my 59 flat top.
Its worth the wait. Perfect sound, factory specs.
1960 Eldorado Seville, Copper, "IKE"
1961 CDV, gold, "Goldfinger"
1964 Eldorado, Turquoise, "Billy the Squid"
1963 De Ville Station Wagon Vista roof, silver blue, "Race Bannon"
1963 Fleetwood 60S, turquoise, "The Miami Special"
1959 Sedan Deville flat top, tan, "Jupiter-2"
1947 Caddy Sedanette 62, black, "Johnny Cash"
1970 ASC Fleetwood wagon, dark blue, "Iron Maiden"
Lifetime CLC

Clewisiii

Gabe, showing my ignorance. What is your reasoning for using the flex pipe shielding. 
"My interest is in the future, because I am going to spend the rest of my life there."  Charles Kettering

Gabe Davis

Quote from: Clewisiii on June 16, 2023, 11:03:20 AMGabe, showing my ignorance. What is your reasoning for using the flex pipe shielding. 

It actually came with that covering from the factory. If you look at the diagram of the exhaust system, you can see it on the first set of pipes has it.

Pipes-manual.jpg

59-in-pieces posted a photo of an original exhaust with it:

Exhst wrap atbrace to bell housing.jpg

1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Clewisiii

"My interest is in the future, because I am going to spend the rest of my life there."  Charles Kettering

Cadillac Jack 82

This is a great post and its helping me understand my exhaust completely.  Mine was replaced by Kmart November 1968 by the original owner.  They obviously cut corners but some of the original components remain.  I'm looking forward to getting this completed over the holidays.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Cadillac Jack 82

Okay I'm having a hard time understanding why the steel part that Gabe listed earlier costs 60 while Mastermind wants 350 for their stainless one?  They look as if they're the same?
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Gabe Davis

Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on October 11, 2023, 03:48:54 PMOkay I'm having a hard time understanding why the steel part that Gabe listed earlier costs 60 while Mastermind wants 350 for their stainless one?  They look as if they're the same?

Which part? The flex tubing?
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Cadillac Jack 82

Yes.  I love your post because its very detailed.  Mastermind has the stainless version of the flexpipe but they want a hefty price for it.  The items you ordered from Napa appear to be almost exactly like the originals from what I can find.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Gabe Davis

#31
I opted for aluminized steel over stainless for the whole system after weighing the pros and cons. I like that it is more technically correct and sounds original. So in doing that the flex pipes are galvanized steel as that was what I was able to find easily. I'm sure a stainless version will be pretty expensive. I think the galvanized was about $40 for the 6' length.

I do have an update I need to make to this thread when I get a chance to confirm the details. Basically, on the rear most hangers for the resonators the threaded holes in the frame are a different size than the rest. They are smaller I think by one size. I didn't realize it when installing as I figured the threads were just rusty and the bolts were difficult to get started but they are actually smaller.

When I find that info I'll see if I can find the part numbers for McMaster-Carr that I used as well.
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Cadillac Jack 82

Thank you for the information!  I'll just opt to do the route you went and save myself 200+ dollars for more Cadillac goodies.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Gabe Davis

Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on October 11, 2023, 04:36:10 PMI love your post because it's very detailed.

I'm happy to help! I'm glad others are finding this useful. I looked around but didn't see a lot of info about the hangers specifically. They are only mentioned in passing in the service manual. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. So I intentionally posted a lot. I find it useful to be able to compare visually with others cars. I've only personally seen two other 1959's in person so photos really help!
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Gabe Davis

#34
Adding some specifics about the bolts for the hangers to the frame.

All of the hangers except for the resonators are 5/16-18. The resonator hangers are 5/16-12. The last page of the Fuel & Exhaust section of the shop manual has a handy chart:

1959-SM-FnE-Chart.jpg

The McMaster-Carr parts are here:

5/16-18 3/4 long Zinc Yellow-Chromate bolts - Part Number 92620A581
https://www.mcmaster.com/92620A581/

5/16-24 3/4 long Zinc Yellow-Chromate bolts - Part Number 92620A606
https://www.mcmaster.com/92620A606/

They were not present originally but as I was re-using the holes in the frame I added lock washers:

5/16 Zinc Yellow-Chromate Plated Steel Split Lock Washers - Part Number 91104A030
https://www.mcmaster.com/91104A030/

And the large washers for the anti rattle rubber bushings and two mounts up by the mufflers:

Black-Oxide Steel Oversized Washer for 5/16 bolts - Part Number 92140A116
https://www.mcmaster.com/92140A116/


1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Gabe Davis

#35
So I had the car out today on a beautiful fall afternoon and decided to go for the resonator drain hole. The earlier cars had the resonator tilted at a pretty extreme angle downward toward the front of the car. The '59 is much closer to being parallel with the ground so I decided to measure it to see where the hole should go.

IMG_0832.jpg

While the car was on level ground, I put a small magnetic level on the resonators to get a sense of which direction they favored. Unlike the earlier cars, these actually tilted down slightly rearward.

IMG_0834.jpg

IMG_0836.jpg

Using a 1/8" drill bit, I drilled into the resonator, at its low point toward the rear of the car, inward enough from the edge to clear the crimp and its inset.

IMG_0840.jpg

The results were immediately clear as water came spitting out at cold idle.

Video here:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/274g1u6h2eb0as6v7vuy9/1959-ExhaustDrain.mov?rlkey=5sevk5xtgjcgrjjdna6wvi9te&dl=0

IMG_0841.jpg

I repeated the hole for the other side. There was a very, very small difference in sound but you would have to be underneath the car right at the resonators to be able to hear it and even then place a finger over the tiny hole to A/B the sound. It really made no appreciable change and no change at all while driving.

Hopefully this will help to increase the longevity of the resonators!
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Cadillac Jack 82

I ended up buying the Mastermind kit but lordy....its just precut flex tube.  Also bought the bolts you recommended.  Hope to have it done in early December.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Gabe Davis

Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on October 29, 2023, 03:11:57 PMI ended up buying the Mastermind kit but lordy....its just precut flex tube.

I was curious and looked up the Mastermind exhaust. Found it here:

https://mastermindinc.net/Exhaust%20System.htm

"57ZB23-004   1957 - 60 EXHAUST MANIFOLD TO MUFFLER GALVANIZED EXHAUST SYSTEM DECORATIVE FLEXIBLE METAL SHROUDING    250.00
    For that factory fresh look! Includes installation instructions, which you will need! 4 Piece Set."

Has yours come in? Is it just the flex tubing or are the hard pipes already wrapped in it? I found the receipt from NAPA - I paid $30 for 6'. Almost 10x less than what they are asking!

Interesting that they describe it as "decorative". Seems like it has more purpose than just looks. The cryptic hint about the instructions too. "Beat the tar out of it with a custom cut 2x4" is my guess.

Also, for correctness, I should add the flex over the passenger side down pipe. The photo that was shared by 59-in-pieces shows it there too. And Mastermind says that for '59 it is a 3 piece set in the description of the stainless version.
1959 Coupe DeVille
Rosewood with Dover White Top

Cadillac Jack 82

Hopefully it works because it looks just like standard flex pipe.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

59-in-pieces

#39
Once again late to the party.

The first picture showing the wrap seemingly short around the exhaust brace to the bell housing is shrink and wiggle.
Originally, the wrap would have been close up to the brace clamp.

I also posted another area around the pan that had original wrap.

I don't know what the reference was to the 3"?????
But perhaps, they were referring to the asbestoses wrap that crumbles away over time, and is illegal nowadays, see the posted pics below.
So instead of asbestoses, steel wrap could go there?????

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher